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sperold
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Post subject: Rear Wheel Bearings - Front Wheel Drive
 Posted: Mar 27, 2012 - 03:54 AM
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Member
Joined: Jun 28, 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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Wondering how difficult it is to change the rear wheel bearings on the passenger side.
Do I need a puller to get the old cups out?
How can I get the new cups back in, do I need a press?
Or is everything do-able with no special tools.
I bought the bearings and there seems to be an inner set (cup and cone) and an outer set (cup and cone).
The old bearings are bad, and the wheel can be moved easily, and the tire will rub on the steel trailing arm.
Could use some advice. |
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wvginseng
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Post subject: RE: Rear Wheel Bearings - Front Wheel Drive
Posted: Mar 27, 2012 - 01:42 PM
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Active Member
Joined: Jul 24, 2007
Posts: 308
Location: New Martinsville WV
Status: Offline
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| you do not need a puller for rear bearings. the outer bearings almost fall out while the inner bearings may need coaxing. the bearings are inside the brake drum. just don't damage inside the drum where the bearings fit into. grease the bearings and do not over tighten nut. if wheel gets a little loose later can always retighten. |
_________________
1985 Red Tempo ATX 84,000
1985 Brown Tempo ATX 297,000
1985 Brown Tempo MTX 261,000
1985 Black Tempo MTX 79,000
1984 Grey Tempo ATX 165,000
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amc49
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Post subject: RE: Rear Wheel Bearings - Front Wheel Drive
Posted: Mar 28, 2012 - 06:44 AM
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Blabbermouth
Joined: Aug 07, 2009
Posts: 1057
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Status: Offline
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| Like old school front wheel bearing on rear wheel drive car. You'll need new inner wheel seal since it gets destroyed so you can get to inside bearing. No press needed. Put plenty of grease inside the center opening, if you just grease bearing itself, the grease spins out into the opening in use and bearing runs dry to die early. |
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FallenAngel
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Post subject: RE: Rear Wheel Bearings - Front Wheel Drive
Posted: Mar 31, 2012 - 05:49 AM
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Newbie
Joined: Jun 02, 2009
Posts: 20
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Status: Offline
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#1 Recommendation is to not try it if you have never done anything related to brakes before... and lived... 
If you have, then go straight to an autoparts store like Partsource and get a free printoff of the EXACT service procedure,(or the haynes manual will suffice)... and follow it exactly... Torque specifications MATTER a lot here... If you do it incorrectly, bad things happen... Get yourself a new spindle nut kit, (a few bucks), has the nut,washer(s), retainer and cotter pin... DO NOT reuse this stuff EVER!!! Torque spec procedures are IMPORTANT... Looking in my official Ford Technician Shop Manual, the first torque is to 17-25ft lbs, (while spinning the drum), to seat the bearing properly, (get a partner to help spin the drum while you torque it... (Yes, this means using a torque wrench, NOT your best guess)... Then back it off HALF a turn, (this will appear to be VERY loose), you may even be able to move it with your fingers, (as in you might think you did something wrong, but often half a turn ends up fully loosening the nut again, that is essentially the point because the initial torque and "drum spin", was simply to seat the bearings... Next, after backing it off, you tighten to 24-28 INCH pounds, NOT foot pounds, in foot pounds, that would be about 2 (TWO) ft-lbs... VERY VERY little, that means you'll need a torque wrench that reads in INCH POUNDS... plus up to 25ft pounds... In my case this means two different ones, one small, one big...
I'm only being this specific because I've been working on my cars for 4 years now, (having had worked with family members who are trained mechanics for well over a decade and I can tell you that if this is your first more complicated repair), READ the instructions 3-5 times before even taking the wheel off... There are circumstances that occur that are not necessarily focused on in depth, in the manual... For example, when I did my rear wheel bearings, (just last month actually), my drums had a nice lip of rust on the outer edge, making it nearly impossible to remove the drum/hub assembly... Of course the manual has a solution for this, which is easier said, than done without a brake adjustment tool specifically made to be poked through the back side of the backing plate to the drum, (after removing a rubber plug), then you stick it in, (two different size flatblade screwdrivers can also successfully be used, but are a PITA to say the least... The goal is to back the star wheel adjuster off to back the shoes off from the drum, enabling you to pull that SOB off... This can turn 45 min/wheel into 3-4+ hours easily if you're a first timer... My last caution is regarding getting the races out of the hub... (races= cups, same thing)... If the races are severely worn, like mine were, you'll need to be EXTRA careful to not score the hub while using your hammer and punch to tap the 1/32nd of an inch left of the lip of the race...lol, in metric, I swear it was less than a millimetre to try and hit with a punch, and not hit the hub at the same time... In other words, if you do not have steady hands, leave this task to someone else... Rear Hubs for these cars are EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to source... Through a wrecker is what I mean, the dealer and parts stores will literally laugh...
My rant is done, I just make an extra point to say FOLLOW the instructions EXACTLY... or don't bother, because a less than meticulous friend of mine did wheel bearings on his car, then, being in a hurry... forgot the torque specs and just guessed... and then forgot to put the cotter pin on the one side... lets just say he's ok, but his car was not... Be Safe!
P.S. Just re-read, if I ever say spin the "wheel", what I really meant is the drum...changed most parts of my post back to drum... (wheel goes back after,lol)...what I really meant was when youre seating the bearings, the drum needs to be spun to seat properly, hence the partner, or a wife for about 30 seconds of their time per side... |
_________________
Cayman Green 1994 Topaz GS Coupe 2.3L , ATX
95K Miles/152K KMs (Sitting in my driveway since November 2010, not by choice, but by necessity) Too many cars to insure at once...
Beige 1993 Topaz LS 3.0L Sedan , ATX (Daily Driver)
125K Miles/200K Kms as of March 2012
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amc49
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 31, 2012 - 07:54 AM
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Blabbermouth
Joined: Aug 07, 2009
Posts: 1057
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Status: Offline
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There is absolutely no need to change the nut or nut retainer over it on these cars, only possibly cotter pin. The parts are not highly stressed like on front wheel drive. I haven't changed them in 45+ years and never had one go 'bad'.
You don't even need a torque wrench if you have a feel for the tightness, simply slightly overtighten to seat races, spin drum a bit to ensure then back off nut 1/2 turn while wobbling/turning drum. Tighten slowly back up till all slack/wobble disappears and then up to line up next slot in castellated nut cover. When done the drum should spin but no wobble at all when it's worked sideways. Overtightening any beyond the tight spec just nets you a destroyed bearing. The inch pound number is nice if you happen to have a torque wrench for it but not necessary. Tell me how many other times you'll use that wrench if you're not a mech, never mind, I'll say it, not enough to pay for it......... |
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sperold
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 01, 2012 - 02:39 AM
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Joined: Jun 28, 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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Thanks for all the advice. I took off the outer nut, castle tin thing and cotter pin and pulled the whole thing off. My inner bearing had completely failed and all the roller bearings were loose inside the assembly. It took me a little while to realize the inner part of that inner bearing was still on the spindle shaft, and looked like it was part of the spindle. I had nothing to pull it off, so I took the grinder and cut a groove and opened it up with a chisel so I could get it off. Then the new inner bearing went on the shaft and positioned itself in the correct location.
All in all, it went fairly well. I changed both the inner and outer bearings, and it is going well.
I learned you can buy the whole assembly with the wheel studs and everything, and it means you don't have to deal with the cup part of the bearing as it comes complete. The 2 bearings were about $14.00 while that whole hub is about $50.00. |
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FallenAngel
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 02, 2012 - 06:48 AM
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Newbie
Joined: Jun 02, 2009
Posts: 20
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Status: Offline
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@AMC49, Respectfully, I agree with the fact that you don't "need" to change the spindle nut hardware on NON-drive wheels every time, however, as an overall rule,(if you don't know how old the hardware is), I believe, (as do the engineers at Ford), that you shouldn't be advising people to not follow installation instructions just because something worked for you, (regardless of the timeframe), 5 years, 10, 45, it doesn't matter, it only takes 30 seconds worth of installation mishap to cause a lifetime of pain. You would think that would be obvious... "if common sense were so common"... you get the idea...
While that works for you, it doesn't work for everyone, maybe others are not as careful as you and overtighten the bearings, or undertighten them and then jam the cotter pin through the slot with a hammer damaging it and then it breaking later due to the unnecessary stress from an careless installation... For a few dollars,personally, I'll leave out the chance that 20+ year old hardware is still ok... I really don't think you have any place telling people that it's "absolutely unnessessary"... A better statement would be, "If you are already a highly skilled DIYer and know what you're doing, then you can confidently make your own decision as to what you'd like to re-use or not re-use... but I wouldn't make an implication about something like that to someone that you have no idea of their skill level, other than the fact that they're asking how to do something in an online forum, because they clearly didn't know before hand...
To assume that one is going to do things exactly as you are is not the best when working on a safety related item on one's car... Your feel for "tightness" may be entirely different than someone else's who doesn't have the 45+ years of experience that you do... (Really, I'm not trying to be rude, but this isn't a bicycle we're talking about...) That kind of mentality when working on one's car as a novice will get you seriously hurt... All I'm saying is torque specs are SUPER easy to follow and for a novice who isn't a mechanic, this can be great piece of mind...
"Tell me how many other times you'll use that wrench if you're not a mech, never mind, I'll say it, not enough to pay for it........." This really? Is quite laughable... not sure what you pay in your area for a torque wrench, but it quite EASILY pays for itself... Lets see, lug nuts dozens of times, spark plugs, countless suspension nuts and bolts/struts, oil/trans pan bolts, tie rod nuts/inner/outer... spindle nuts, exhaust bolts, and torque to spec bolts under the hood... engine/trans mounts... brakes, etc... All things I've done in the past 2 years alone working on my own car... $140 with tax for both a 3/8" and 1/2" torque wrench together, pretty cheap insurance if you ask me... Either Canadian Tire or Princess Auto when they go on sale... Big deals to be had if you don't need something like Snap-on thats costs 3-6X more... useful if you use it everyday...like a mechanic... If not you don't need to spend $500+ on torque wrenches... In the US, similar deals can be had, (or cheaper) at Harbour Freight, or any other automotive parts store...
@Sperold, Glad that you worked your stuff out... Just curious where you got/can get the rear hub from? The front is readily available but I've never seen the rear, except from a dealer in the US... |
_________________
Cayman Green 1994 Topaz GS Coupe 2.3L , ATX
95K Miles/152K KMs (Sitting in my driveway since November 2010, not by choice, but by necessity) Too many cars to insure at once...
Beige 1993 Topaz LS 3.0L Sedan , ATX (Daily Driver)
125K Miles/200K Kms as of March 2012
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sperold
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 03, 2012 - 01:34 AM
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Member
Joined: Jun 28, 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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| Try RockAuto in US. Go through listing under hub , there is one rear hub assy from a brand name manufacturer. Most of the listing centers around the all wheel drive model, which is a pretty rare beast to be carrying parts for. |
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FallenAngel
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 03, 2012 - 06:36 PM
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Newbie
Joined: Jun 02, 2009
Posts: 20
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Status: Offline
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Ironic, that's where I looked first, I've been ordering from them for years.
I used to fix computers for a living, so my computer literacy is beyond most, (just to eliminate the thought that I might not know how to use the menu or something, lol). For the life of me, I cannot find a "Rear Hub" listed on Rockauto anywhere... (yes, of course I see the rear bearings on their own, but I don't see the REAR hub at all...), front hubs only... :/ Perhaps you could provide a brand and part #number?  |
_________________
Cayman Green 1994 Topaz GS Coupe 2.3L , ATX
95K Miles/152K KMs (Sitting in my driveway since November 2010, not by choice, but by necessity) Too many cars to insure at once...
Beige 1993 Topaz LS 3.0L Sedan , ATX (Daily Driver)
125K Miles/200K Kms as of March 2012
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amc49
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 07, 2012 - 11:09 AM
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Blabbermouth
Joined: Aug 07, 2009
Posts: 1057
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Status: Offline
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The inch pound wrench is the useless one. Hardly ever used, will NOT pay for itself, there I go again. I've got 3 and the first STILL has not paid for itself. Just trying to save someone some money. You apparently don't care, you swallow Ford tripe about changing every single nut and bolt removed from a car. You realize that's to please the lawyers and sell mostly unneeded parts right? Someone should take the time to explain to you about 'proven part theory', in aviation some used parts are preferred to new.
Your age of part idea is somewhat worthless, I'd put parts on that have sat on a shelf for 50 years if dimensionally accurate and not rusted or other damage. Or maybe you think steel goes bad after a while? How about aluminum? You just need enough sense to know the difference between it and say a rubber part that will be crumbling by then. As far as capabilitites of the people working on car, they have decided to run their own risks or would not be doing the work. Best protection would be for you to go further and tell them not only to use brand new parts but also go to the dealerships only to get the truly best work.
Skill levels and whether part is useable or not are 2 different things, simply accepting that the new replacement part is better can be just as dangerous, I've seen literally hundreds of bad parts that were brand new. Look at all the recalls for bad parts nowadays.
I gave a method for tightening that if followed to the letter can be done by anyone competent enough to turn a wrench without having to buy the inch pound wrench. I've done hundreds like that and never lost a one. I don't use a torque wrench on anything but heads, rods, mains, super critical work. I use angle gauge on TTY stuff. Most other work simply not necessary, I haven't torqued lug nuts in literally 40 years. Have NEVER used one on suspensions.........
If you knew how few new parts I use it would probably frighten you, but my stuff goes together and lasts for years. I would be upset if it didn't. I don't hesitate for a second to buy necessary parts, but have also found that many times they are not so. |
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sperold
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 07, 2012 - 11:03 PM
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Member
Joined: Jun 28, 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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I went to RockAuto to look for the solid hub with bearings, and I could not find them either. I know they were in the "30 day warranty, sell-off" category, but I did not think they would sell out and de-list in a few days.
Either that, or I mixed them up with another vehicle I was researching at the same time (Taurus), but they have 5 studs, and I wouldn't think I would mix those two up. |
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FallenAngel
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 13, 2012 - 02:07 AM
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Newbie
Joined: Jun 02, 2009
Posts: 20
Location: Cambridge, Ontario
Status: Offline
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Indeed, either way, I've looked frequently over the last 3 years and never seen the rears, except from dealers...
@AMC49, In your last post, (which to be honest was mostly unnecessary as you turned the thread into an argument of going by the book, or not, or a variation there of), you made a series of assumptions, merely based on the way I chose to word my post to "Sperold"...
The recommendations were to the non mechanically inclined attempting the repair... Fair enough that it can be assumed that the person is taking things into their own hands if they are doing it themselves... Again, VERY true that you do not need the small torque wrench whatsoever, and true, you could live without the large one... All I was attempting to get across, is that if common sense were so common, then why is it in such short supply? (If you get my drift)... Just trying to help someone not get in over their head... I've seen more bone headed DIY repairs in my short time on this Earth than I care to admit, (not being a certified automotive mechanic myself) and was just attempting to give them the best advice possible on my part... I am not going to bother responding to all of you statements as you clearly don't understand the spirit of my post... Which if unaware, was NOT to sell unnecessary parts or otherwise give Ford anymore business than is needed...but simply to educate... Obviously you feel very strongly about your methods and I do as well about mine. I think we can leave it at that we can agree to disagree... but as a point of saying, I have a degree in biomolecular engineering and the principles between my field of expertise and applications in the automotive engineering field are not entirely dissimilar. One of my mentors in life is also a lifetime aviation mechanic and pilot, so yes, you might say that I know just "a bit" about certain aeronautical engineering principles as well and I'm not naive to the uses of used components.
Many times I have reused fasteners in my own vehicles... MORE times than I can count, BUT, I live in this strange geographical area known as the "RUST BELT", perhaps you've heard of it? Well, if you haven't, it literally EATS STEEL for breakfast, lunch and dinner... Of course, its all fine and dandy to use a "50 year old part off the shelf", but then see how well it stands up to 20 Canadian, (Ontario), winters... Not too well from what ANYONE with no mechanical knowledge whatsoever can tell you! I've seen more fasteners than you can imagine, literally flake HUGE layers of rust off, when taken off, or completely warp or otherwise become unusable... In any event, I'm pretty sure, based on your informative posts, that you're no stranger to the heat treating process, so I won't bother patronizing you on the topic... Two decades of Ontario road salt + 26mm fastener, (just over one inch for the Americans here) = a 22-24mm fastener when cleaned up... Correct me if I'm wrong, but that 2-4mm (basically 1/10th-1/6th") of heat treated metal GONE, isn't going to weaken that fastener at all when reinstalled hmmmm? I've personally seen what happens, buddy of mine had his lower control arm to sway bar nut shear clear off... luckily no major damage, just a lovely "BANG,grrrrrrrindddd" as the tire hit the rear of the wheel well...
SO if you would like to conclude that reusing hardware that is from a NON salt infested area of the continent is OK, then I would generally agree... If you are reusing fasteners anywhere in Ontario(or rustbelt) and you run your car in the winter... I would suggest you get a second opinion... EX: If the fastener is still relatively shiny and only surface rust, its probably good to re-use... However, if you can poke it with the end of a flat blade screwdriver and more than a 1/16th" of rust comes off... you might want to ask before chancing $1000 worth of tire and suspension to the possibility that Ontario roads have not wreaked havoc on the fastener since its installation...
Specifically @ AMC 49, And NO, just FYI, I don't give a rat's *** about what Ford does or doesn't say, I trust my EYES, if it LOOKS OK, I usually do not replace it... but if it looks questionable, like most stuff on my 20 year old ford does after 20 ontario winters, I'm going to spend $2 on a new fastener, rather than reinstall the one that is now a full metric size down... ex was a 24, and now fits a 22 socket... :/
We're all friends here, (I think)... and I only meant to help, not to offend or give you any thought that I, "swallow Ford tripe"...I have a friend who's uncle just happens to be a long time engineer at the Talbotville plant , here in Ontario, and he could care less if you buy one of their cars or parts, but he tells his family things according to whether he wants them to live or die and trust me, he's not your average gear head and doesn't for a second "go by the book", if something is quite obviously in good condition... but here in Ontario, there is a HUGE difference between a 5, 10 and 20+ year old car when it comes to rust penetration.
Good Day! |
_________________
Cayman Green 1994 Topaz GS Coupe 2.3L , ATX
95K Miles/152K KMs (Sitting in my driveway since November 2010, not by choice, but by necessity) Too many cars to insure at once...
Beige 1993 Topaz LS 3.0L Sedan , ATX (Daily Driver)
125K Miles/200K Kms as of March 2012
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amc49
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Post subject:
Posted: Apr 13, 2012 - 07:42 AM
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Blabbermouth
Joined: Aug 07, 2009
Posts: 1057
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Status: Offline
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I apologize.
I believe I DID use the words 'dimensionally accurate' in earlier posting, that would cover rusted out parts.
I'm here in Texas. Everything burns up, but nothing rusts. I do not envy those of you who have to rebuy half your parts when they break at disassembly time because they are corroded in half.
Sometimes I can just be so full of crap................... |
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