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outinnavy
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Post subject: 1994 tempo wont accel
 Posted: May 14, 2012 - 12:14 AM
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Newbie
Joined: May 14, 2012
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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this car just trys to die when throttle is pushed in gear
i have replaced the mass air sensor, tps, ,plugs ,wires ,cap,o2 sensor, rotor button camshaft sensor, egr , idle air control, cleaned the throttle body and a new fuel pressure reg. fuel pressure inline on big connector is 45 at idle and up to 60 on acceleration .traced all the vacuum lines and replaced bad ones tried a coil from another car and same thing .just to rev in park motor sounds good and revs up if you push gas slow just to stomp on it ,it will cut out and slowly gain rpm's
i put the computer on it and no codes are thrown just has no power in gear will not pull out of my driveway
any help would be great |
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amc49
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Post subject:
Posted: May 14, 2012 - 05:27 AM
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Blabbermouth
Joined: Aug 07, 2009
Posts: 1051
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Status: Offline
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You may not like the 'help'.
This is a perfect example of why I quit what should have been a promising career in auto parts. The person who throws hundreds of dollars in parts at a computer controlled car because he does not know how to fix it. Then comes back in exasperation about why it won't run right. Usually bringing back hundreds of dollars worth of now used parts as returns and hollering at me while doing so (that's because I suggested to him ahead of time generally that what he was doing wouldn't fix it). I had it up to my neck and it was smothering me so I stuffed the job.
First thing done should have been pull codes, if none then check basic engine condition before spending one cent on parts. How many miles on it? A dead engine sealwise will NEVER run right regardless of how many parts you put on it.
No insult meant to poster of course, you're already feeling it in bad non-productive result. You actually did begin to do some testing like with coil to avoid spending more. Out of all the parts you changed in first line of post, only the mass air is the one that cannot be tested easily before buying. Other sensors easily tested with a $15 voltmeter, all the ignition parts could be looked at in a second to verify if they were causing the problem without buying new. Meaning unnecessary to buy those parts, sorry.
I'd get a good compression reading of the motor before I went any further. Bad valve seal at seats or bad rings could easily do that and unrepairable with bolt on parts. I've seen FI motors that idled perfectly but spit their guts out at load from jumped timing. With the tensioner on these that should be pretty hard to do though.
No MIL means nothing, you gotta go looking into both hard and soft faults, many things can be wrong with no light at all.
Did problem develop slowly over time or all at once seemingly?
Know that the distributor pickup coil can do this and a problem on these cars, at least earlier ones. You gotta yank distributor to fix it. Can't really check that since Hall effect transistor does the on/off switching there. TFI-IV module could be bad too, same symptoms. I'd do it before the pickup. You should be getting a SPOUT error code there though.
Vacuum leak affects idle but less as motor gets higher in speed. Your problem the leak would have to be huge. Idle air motor/solenoid only comes into play at idle only, as soon as you go off idle the air supply coming from throttle body mainly. If idle OK then idle motor was fine.
How about clogged converter or collapsed exhaust pipe? The symptoms fit that. Disconnect front of converter and through the noise see if it runs better.
Sorry about the rant and good luck. I know, I'm an as-. |
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PerformanceWithEconomy
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Post subject:
Posted: May 14, 2012 - 01:35 PM
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Webmaster
Joined: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 2335
Location: South Suburbs of Chicago
Status: Offline
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AMC is right on the money. He did miss one thing though. That is, the injectors. You can have fuel pressure, you can make power with no load, but once load is applied, you need measurably more fuel. Heavily clogged injectors could result in limited flow & power production. I don't think that this is the case here, but it is worth a mention. This also assumes that you've verified proper airflow up to the MAF sensor i.e. nothing stuck in air inlet tube, etc...
The first four cost nothing more than time IF you have the tools or a credit / debit card for deposit.
Check timing - If you don't have a timing gun, borrow tool from Autozone, etc... Check it both in park & in gear on brake. This is a timing chain system, not a belt. It is either going to be where it should or it isn't. It might walk a little bit, but it should be within reason. Timing belts can do all kinds of weird things due to irregular stretching under load.
Vacuum measurements - If you don't have a vacuum gauge, borrow tool from Autozone, etc... Measure at idle & at various rev points in park / neutral, repeat with it in gear on brake. If relatively similar under easy acceleration both in & out of gear, you've got a problem with limited airflow. This could be intake, exhaust or compression related. Could be any combo of all three.
Compression test - borrow tool from Autozone, etc... Make certain that ALL plugs are out, fuel flow is completely disabled and battery is STRONG. If compression readings are universally very low, you've probably found your culprit. If not, next step.
Exhaust flow test - drop system from front of converter, etc... If motor
Cylinder balance test - OBD I scanner. You'll obviously need a scanner for this one. This would be your last resort unless you already have a scanner due to the cost involved. Even then, you are talking less than $30, which is peanuts compared to what you've got into this beast already. This tests the system as a whole and may give you somewhere to go. In your situation, it might be the first / best way to go. Sean
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_________________
92 White / Red 2.3 MTX 130K miles, 93 Cayman Green / Grey 2.3 MTX 140K miles, 94 White / Grey 2.3 MTX 196K miles, 94 Red / Grey 2.3 ATX 70K miles, SouthSide Chicago
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outinnavy
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Post subject:
Posted: May 15, 2012 - 10:06 PM
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Newbie
Joined: May 14, 2012
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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PerformanceWithEconomy thanks for the reply
i did a balance test and everything was ok i have another set of injectors here i can change them out
this is a junk yard motor because the one that was in it burned a hole in the piston other that that the old motor ran great
so everything i switched out was from old motor only thing i bought was maf sensor
and the car is really hard to start when motor is cold |
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amc49
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Post subject:
Posted: May 15, 2012 - 11:20 PM
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Blabbermouth
Joined: Aug 07, 2009
Posts: 1051
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Status: Offline
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You got me.
I don't need the money, I generally can 99% of the time change one part only and fix the sucker. It just seems so wasteful to throw all that money at something and still not fixed.
I did indeed think of the injectors but did not mention them for same reasons. 90+% of the people who decide to change them based on some invisible 'family mechanic' or other third person got virtually no good result at all doing so. Then the invariable argument at the store when they claimed WE told them it would fix the problem. Injectors and PCMs are the most changed (least understood) parts that do no good at all.
Not saying it's not the trouble here, but I will say that in all the time I worked in a garage in the early days of EFI I never had to change but say a single injector once or twice, not whole sets. Not one PCM either. Yet I never found a car that couldn't be fixed to run well unless the engine itself was defective thus producing car that could not be made to run right. I well remember one of the early DFI Cadillacs that the owner insisted on the entire injector log/harness. You could not change single injectors back then. $800.00 part, it fixed exactly nothing. Finally found a major vacuum leak that fixed it.
One injector bad should be able to be deduced by running conditions as versus all 4 bad.
Take the balance test with a grain of salt. It can tell the difference in rpm drop among cylinders. HOWEVER, a uniformly worn out engine would have little difference in rpm drop since all are dead. Also, good balance test screams that injectors are OK at least at idle.
What year is car and what year is motor?
Get someone like O'Reilly's to check your TFI module for free, it could easily do this and common malady on these cars. There was a recall at one time. My '88 Tempo exact symptoms, idle, off idle fine but load it and it spit its' guts out. Bad module.
Ford EEC-IV software has a cylinder balance test built into '94 model at least, maybe back to '92. You can do one for free. BTDT. |
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outinnavy
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Post subject:
Posted: May 31, 2012 - 01:39 AM
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Newbie
Joined: May 14, 2012
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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| i replaced the distributor and it run OK now but i have to set the timing at 30-40 advance and there is allot of spark knock |
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PerformanceWithEconomy
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Post subject:
Posted: May 31, 2012 - 02:58 AM
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Webmaster
Joined: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 2335
Location: South Suburbs of Chicago
Status: Offline
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You didn't put the distributor back in at the proper spot. You're probably a tooth or maybe even two off. You will have to pull the distributor and re-install it with the crank / pistons & distributor / rotor in the proper position. Sean
< |
_________________
92 White / Red 2.3 MTX 130K miles, 93 Cayman Green / Grey 2.3 MTX 140K miles, 94 White / Grey 2.3 MTX 196K miles, 94 Red / Grey 2.3 ATX 70K miles, SouthSide Chicago
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outinnavy
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Post subject:
Posted: May 31, 2012 - 10:41 AM
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Newbie
Joined: May 14, 2012
Posts: 3
Status: Offline
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| i have tried going either way one tooth still will not run correct at 10deg btc i'll try it again tonight |
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PerformanceWithEconomy
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Post subject:
Posted: May 31, 2012 - 12:03 PM
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Webmaster
Joined: Dec 23, 2007
Posts: 2335
Location: South Suburbs of Chicago
Status: Offline
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When checking and setting the timing, are you disconnecting the cable at the alternator? I think that this is called the "spout" system. You can find info on this in the manual. Sean
< |
_________________
92 White / Red 2.3 MTX 130K miles, 93 Cayman Green / Grey 2.3 MTX 140K miles, 94 White / Grey 2.3 MTX 196K miles, 94 Red / Grey 2.3 ATX 70K miles, SouthSide Chicago
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amc49
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2012 - 03:41 AM
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Blabbermouth
Joined: Aug 07, 2009
Posts: 1051
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Status: Offline
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Yep, the shorting plug for SPOUT must be disconnected to set initial timing or computer puts all the advance in.
A small two prong plug fairly close to where wiring comes off distributor. When unplugged the timing goes to being locked to wherever distributor is with no advance. Plug back in to allow PCM to control advance once initial lead is timed right.
SPOUT=SPark OUTput.......................PCM reads pickup on distributor, figures out advance required and sends signal back through plug to TFI-IV module. |
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amc49
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2012 - 03:42 AM
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Blabbermouth
Joined: Aug 07, 2009
Posts: 1051
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Status: Offline
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